lukeblank Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Your in-game name: Don Vaganto Staff members name: robot246loop Staff member SteamID(http://steamidfinder.com/): (STEAM_0:1:555170818) https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561199070607365 Explain what happened: robot246loop has thrown 2 temper tantrums after losing in gang fights to me, having me wrongfully pulled me into 2 sits, has had me wrongfully warned 4 times, and has had me wrongfully jailed. This has been done under claims that I, as a job without the ability to raid, am unable to claim territories and unable to counter to defend my gang territory. I have claimed territories in the presence of other staff members, including robot (when he happens to be the victor), having not been told a single thing like that, I have only been told such things by robot after winning 2 gang fights against him. The first incident, my friend and I had successfully claimed Nuke from The Wicked, with robot not being able to reach us due to the Cartel. I was Hobo Lord, and I initiated the capture. I was pulled into a sit before completing the capture, and was denied capture after being returned. I didn't question or fight the ruling, thinking it would only be a single incident, though I did disagree. The second incident, my friend and I successfully countered his attempted takeover of Dealership, which my gang controlled. I was Hobo Lord, I adverted Counter after passing through the door, killed robot, and adverted Over. I was then pulled into my most recent sit. While I lack major evidence, having no thought to record while simply playing, I have screenshotted the full chat of my most recent sit in which robot denies my claims that such rules are not present in the MOTD. I expressed my opinion of him being a baby, and also voiced that I have heard many stories of robot abusing admin powers in territory situations. More, I expressed that the MOTD should be updated to reflect robots claims should they be true. If I'm truly in the wrong, I would love to be properly shown and corrected, and I will accept my wrong. But to accept strikes on my server profile over what I perceive to be an admin being pissy is something I will not do. I understand that staff can make rulings outside of what's stated in the MOTD, but robot has done so unjustly. If it's important enough to give me formal warnings without educating me, then it should be in the MOTD. Apologies for the essay, but I feel I should be thorough. All that I have said is to the best of my memory. Thank you for reviewing this. Edited January 22, 2020 by Damplips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzed Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Citizens may not advert counter. The rule above is very vague I understand. Citizens can be classed as the Citizen job or the Citizen Category of jobs. Hobo Lord is under the VIP category but as hobo is under Citizens, Hobo Lord is also one. If you were at all warned, jailed or brought in any sits from territories it's either for the fact of: Not waiting 5 minutes per territory takeover Not waiting 3 minute counter cooldown Not adverting takeover Wrong job could be more im missing If you also had a weapon bigger than a pistol as from this rule states: Hobos are only allowed to use pistols, melee weapons, and crossbows. Then it would've been a FRP count. Picture shows you had FRPx2 + RDMx1 FRP would've been one of them and FRP for Hobo Job. RDM could've been no advert counter on one of them or some other reason. ^^ This is me assuming btw. The log shows that Gus Fring did the jailing, robot making the ticket I presume. So therefore, this report against robot does no justice as if there was staff abuse it would've been Gus's doing. - SUPPORT because how you explained it, you seemed to be hobo lord through all of this and committed valid reasons to get punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeems Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I have been in this exact situation and have had this exact conversation with both Fuzed and robot being present. This was over one of my friends countering as an Opium Cook, who may also not raid. This situation was dealt with by us coming to the agreement that the rule specifically stood for the job Citizen, which makes sense. Most of you probably don't remember Runner Gang, they would all be the Runner class and go around taking territories and countering everyone possible. Like Fuzed is saying though, you got FRPx2 and RDMx1. If these were due to using improper weapons as a hobo, then he's not getting you just for countering as a hobo. Even if you advert "counter", it's still rdm if you don't use the correct weapons that fit within the restrictions of your job. I think we would need robot here to be able to know for sure, and get his side of the whole thing. Fuzed also says that Gus Fring was the one to punish you, so you've got the wrong staff member for punishment, however it does make an interesting case if this would be considered both staff members not knowing the rules had you been punished only for countering. overall +/- support, motd needs a rewrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 8 hours ago, Fuzed said: Citizens may not advert counter. The rule above is very vague I understand. Citizens can be classed as the Citizen job or the Citizen Category of jobs. Hobo Lord is under the VIP category but as hobo is under Citizens, Hobo Lord is also one. that rule has not been stated properly , as some of those jobs are allowed to counter. it needs to be put right in the rules, trosa agreed that some of those jobs can counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeblank Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Given it's a donator role, I didn't think Hobo Lord would have to worry about the counter restriction. Thanks for bringing that up. The first sit, I was given FRPx1 since Hobo Lord cannot raid, and as such cannot claim territory. Second sit, FRPx2 RDMx1 15min jail, I was told only over my countering. I used the akimbo Mac 11s, which are machine PISTOLS, I have been using them constantly since crafting them without issue, it was not even brought up in the second sit. I assumed the FRPx2 was given as a repeat offense. In both sits, while robot made the ticket, he decided my fate. Fuzed was still a trial mod and gave me the first FRPx1 at robots decision. Second sit, I only remember robot deciding the RDMx1 after being asked, and then deciding the jail. While the counter has been addressed, the raid-claim-territory thing is unanswered. And I want to assert that one of my issues is robot only bringing these problems up whenever he is the loser, and did not opt to educate me on the MOTD either time, only giving me punishment. I don't think anyone should be punished over ignorance of the rules, especially when staff can be quoted calling them vague. It should be a moment to teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestSideOwl Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I just went off of logs and it showed that you killed him as hobo lord while countering territories and using a gun bigger than a pistol, I cant remember what gun you were using but I'm pretty sure it wasn't any pistols so that's why I did frpx2 + rdmx1, I didn't go off of robots judgement I went with what the logs said, robot and you weren't in the best of moods I will agree but robot didn't do anything except call you out in a sit. I just took the sit and asked robot if he wants it to be a warn or jail cause I like to give people the choice cause its their sit not mine and he said to jail you which I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woona Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 The rule citizens may not advert counter was originally made for the job not the class of job. But taking territories/countering with a job with a weapon restriction still requires you to follow them. Also please follow the different cooldowns next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncircumcised Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMonkey Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 bruh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeblank Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 Do the akimbo Mac 11s not classify as pistols? If not, that's good to know, I'll take a strike. I'm careful regarding cooldowns on takeovers and counters, and to my knowledge followed them in both incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad memes Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, lukeblank said: Do the akimbo Mac 11s not classify as pistols? If not, that's good to know, I'll take a strike. I'm careful regarding cooldowns on takeovers and counters, and to my knowledge followed them in both incidents. I would consider them pistols. still -support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, sad memes said: I would consider them pistols. still -support duel smgs are not pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamedF0x Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, sad memes said: I would consider them pistols. still -support You dumb as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzed Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, lukeblank said: Do the akimbo Mac 11s not classify as pistols? If not, that's good to know, I'll take a strike. I'm careful regarding cooldowns on takeovers and counters, and to my knowledge followed them in both incidents. Google searching Mac 11s you get both answers. In games like rainbow, a mac 11 is a submachine gun. In real life however, it can be also categorized as a machine pistol. To me it is a sub machinegun. SMG doesnt have to mean an actual small rifle in my eyes as the G stands for GUN. Sub Machine is part of what Mac 11s are. A sub-compact machine pistol. pistols are guns. therefore it is a SMG....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeblank Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 In gameplay, I find them comparable to a Glock I can find in the dumpsters. It's a tradeoff, higher fire rate, less total mag size. While there are 2 Macs, they're wielded single handed. I see no issue. Regardless, if they're not considered pistols by staff, I'll accept a strike for wielding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeblank Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 41 minutes ago, Fuzed said: Google searching Mac 11s you get both answers. In games like rainbow, a mac 11 is a submachine gun. In real life however, it can be also categorized as a machine pistol. To me it is a sub machinegun. SMG doesnt have to mean an actual small rifle in my eyes as the G stands for GUN. Sub Machine is part of what Mac 11s are. A sub-compact machine pistol. pistols are guns. therefore it is a SMG....? In R6 Siege, the SMG 11 is classified as a machine pistol for cosmetics and challenges. In this response, you literally say it's a machine pistol. Bringing up the dumpster Glock again, it's full-auto. It's a sub-compact machine pistol. Pistols are guns. Therefore, the dumpster Glock is an SMG? I assumed I could use them based mostly on their gameplay performance; similar to the dumpster Glock, which is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzed Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, lukeblank said: In R6 Siege, the SMG 11 is classified as a machine pistol for cosmetics and challenges. In this response, you literally say it's a machine pistol. Bringing up the dumpster Glock again, it's full-auto. It's a sub-compact machine pistol. Pistols are guns. Therefore, the dumpster Glock is an SMG? I assumed I could use them based mostly on their gameplay performance; similar to the dumpster Glock, which is allowed. Probably depends on looks. A glock is a literal pistol. A mac is a sub machine gun. (based on call of duty as well) MAC 10s and Mac 11s are basically one in the same. Also hobos using PISTOLS. I would think it would have to be the fire rate of a pistol. A mac is faster. PLUS it saying hobos are to use crossbows and melee weapons as well. Why would a hobo use something more overpowered such as a machine gun/machine pistol (even if it's named a pistol) ^ my opinion Either way, this is another example of a rule that needs to be clearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vexyzs Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, lukeblank said: In R6 Siege, the SMG 11 is classified as a machine pistol for cosmetics and challenges. In this response, you literally say it's a machine pistol. Bringing up the dumpster Glock again, it's full-auto. It's a sub-compact machine pistol. Pistols are guns. Therefore, the dumpster Glock is an SMG? I assumed I could use them based mostly on their gameplay performance; similar to the dumpster Glock, which is allowed. -Support -you are practically arguing something that an overwhelming majority of staff disagree with you about, SMG is it’s own class of weapon that’s why it’s ammunition group is different from pistol ammunition. -As for the countering rule it’s not clarified properly which means that in this situation the only thing Gustavo fring could do is use his best judgment and what made the most sense in the situation. -It’s not a bias from staff it’s just simply a confusing situation that they have to work through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad memes Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 11 hours ago, SaintG4Life said: duel smgs are not pistols Don’t bother me with your logic, let me live this fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMonkey Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 hours ago, sad memes said: I would consider them pistols. still -support LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damplips Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Rules updated for the citizen issue The Macs are smgs Report closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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